C-A-G-E-D Guitar method

Musicians discuss things. Anything musician related. You can also use this forum to learn about the Say Anything sound! Discuss the gear, settings, and other misc things used by Say Anything in the studio and out: amps, guitars, effects, basses, drums-- whatever!
DhamaBum
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:27 am

C-A-G-E-D Guitar method

Postby DhamaBum » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:00 pm

So I first learned of the C-A-G-E-D(hereon CAGED or caged) scale method from a great book called Fretboard Logic and this was really what I needed to put together scales and chords and scales over chords, and chord building and all that fun stuff. I was familiar with the concept of scales but didnt really 'get it' i guess until it was outlined this way, then it was just so easy.

Now, lets assume you know something about music, but I'll hopefully fill you in for anything if you need to know it.

Basically there are 5 defined fret shapes/positions to play any chord over the fret board, and these are... wait for it.... C, A, G, E, and D. If you couldnt have guessed that, the rest might be a bit more complicated for you but I'm sure you can grasp it.

Let's also make sure at this point to make a definite distinction between CHORDS and SHAPES. By Shape I mean a regular CHORD played in a postition DIFFERENT than the open position, creating a new CHORD. If you are familiar with using a Capo and transcribing songs to different chords to play on a different fret, then this should be making some sense, but let me further clarify with examples of the most popular SHAPES; E and A


EDIT: some of the damn coding came out weird, but bear with it for a while. the fret numbers below no longer line up with the fret, but if you can count, you can figure it out
EDIT2: and as much as this all looks like english is my second language, I can assure you it is just the hash making me this prone to funny typos

Code: Select all

Alright, 6 strings, 12 frets. Now a G CHORD in the open shape lookss like this(forgive the lack of effort on the detail)

|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

              3         5          7         9              12

And the most common Barred form of G CHORD is the E SHAPE, 3RD POSITION like so

|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

              3         5         7         9               12

Now lets see that with the C CHORD open(below) and the C CHORD, A SHAPE 3RD POSITION(second diagram)

|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

              3         5         7         9               12



|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

              3         5         7         9               12

Like the G CHORD above, both of these fingerings are the C CHORD but played in a different position. Those positions are the most popular as I've said, but not the only ones' if you limit yourself to those two, you great inhibit your ability to play.


Now lets just go over those other chord shapes, the ones I mentioned from the beginning. I'll go over A and E too, just for continuity

Code: Select all

C CHORD
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

A CHORD

|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

G CHORD

|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

E CHORD

|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

D CHORD

|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|




Now of course there are more chords than that, but you might have picked up on the fact that standard F CHORD is just the E FORM moved up a half tone, and the B chord is the A form bumped up a whole tone. So you may be asking why always use this order, CAGED, and I'll show you. The 5 positions and fingerings for making the C CHORD follows this pattern all the way up the neck like so:

Code: Select all

|C FORM  (o) |
_______|A FORM(3)  |
____________|G FORM(5)          |
______________________|E FORM(8)    |
____________________________|D FORM (10)          |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|-.-|
|-.-|---|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-.-|
|---|---|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|-.-|---|---|-.-|
|---|-.-|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|-.-|---|---|
|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|-.-|---|---|-.-|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-.-|---|---|---|---|

              3         5         7         9               12   13/octave


Now if that's hard to see I can post a real image, but let me explain it; The C FORM is in the open position making a C CHORD, then we have the A FORM 3RD POSITION making another C CHORD like we saw above, but we also now have G FORM 5TH POSTION, E FORM 8TH POSITION, and D FORM 10TH POSITION, all of those shapes making the C CHORD.

Now this CAGED patter is transposible all over the fretboard and it runs through. Let me explain with an example, see above the G CHORD, E FORM example. You have the G FORM open position, E FORM 3RD POSITION making a G CHORD, and with the pattern following (G E D C A[CAGED but starting on G and rolling over to the start]) like D FORM 5th POSITION, C FORM 8TH POSITION, A FORM 10TH POSITION, all of these forming the G CHORD.

OK so I'm kinda hungry and need a break. If there is more interest in this, or if I'm feeling bored I'll pick this up and break down how to easily play scales in any chord all over the fretboard. fun stuff.

DhamaBum
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:27 am

Re: C-A-G-E-D Guitar method

Postby DhamaBum » Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:17 pm

Ok, so here's a little fretboard I whipped up for claritys sake
Image

The red dots mark the 3, 5, 7, 9, and 12. 12 is the octave and then the pattern repeats, and the reason D SHAPE crosses over past the 12 is because D and C shapes share that one note, and are the only ones in the pattern that do.

So there seems to be a decent bit of interest in this, almost 100 views worth, so here we go again, SCALES.

This is not the place for me to horribly explain music theory, so find some info in a book or on the web about scales. I'm here to address the guitar interface between the player and the music.

Now, scales are what we use to build chords, riffs, melodies and harmonies. Scales and intervals are the building blocks of music and you must be familiar to be worth anything as a player, and especially a music creator.

There are again 5 patterns for scales all over ther board, and they conform to the previously described CAGED shapes and positions. lets take a gander at those shapes now then:

Now I started with the Pentatonic scales, and it made learning the Diatonic scales much easier, so I'm going to show them:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Ok so those are the scale shapes from the OPEN position and even some cant be done there, but that's where you start, and again D is out there and awkward so you need to stretch the finger one fret to make it. Now, those combined all over there fretboard like the chord shapes is the entire scale for whatever key you're in. Notice how the beginning notes from one scale are the end notes from another; better yet, here's another picture, red dots are showing the chords that are built from the scale.

Image



And I'm too tired now to do another, but that pattern continues just like with the chords. If the key is G, you start with the G form, then E, D, C, A and it starts again at G on 12, but most acoustice guitars wont even allow that much access up there, but electrics give more real estate.

This has been fun and I'll probably do more whenever. If there are any questions, I'll do my best to answer as soon as I can

User avatar
Scott
Legend
Posts: 540
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:33 am
Location: Maryland
Contact:

Re: C-A-G-E-D Guitar method

Postby Scott » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:15 am

that was a really intense lesson. I hope it becomes of use to some people!

What really clicked for me with scales and stuff is when you combine all the scales like pentatonic, dorian, mixolydian (sp?), etc on the fretboard in the correct order and they all fit together like a puzzle for each key. It helped me know where I could move on the fret board and was very freeing for me.
Self-inflicted or not, I find myself on the farthest star, foreign to everything like I woke up with a German tongue.

DhamaBum
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:27 am

Re: C-A-G-E-D Guitar method

Postby DhamaBum » Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:33 pm

Well modes like Dorian and mixolydian are modal orientations of a parent scale, but not scales themself. Make the distinction or it could throw you off

DhamaBum
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:27 am

Re: C-A-G-E-D Guitar method

Postby DhamaBum » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:13 pm

Alright, here comes another installment of my lessons.

Before we begin, I have to start off with a brief discussion about MUSIC THEORY. Sounds pretty daunting, but it's not, this is the easiest part about it, just to get you acclimated to the idea if you dont know yet(read up on this for more comprehensive understanding of it). Now to be clear here, my goal is NOT to explain theory to you. Maybe in another lesson, but for now, I wanted to focus on lessons in playing. Theory is easy to learn anywhere, but how to apply them isnt always as easy to learn

To begin, the Major Diatonic Scale is the bricks and morter that make up the structure of music. All music is based off an understanding of the Major Scale, and the Pentatonic presented before is just a minimized version for ease of use, but eventually you have to go beyond that, and in general it just helps to know what it is, and what makes it up.

The major scale every not in a given key. The standard this is mesured by is the C scale, so i'll show you that:

[C]-[D]-[E][F]-[G]-[A]-[B][C]

These notes make up the key of C. Anything outside of those notes played are 'forbidden'(in theory, in actual music, anything goes if it sounds good), meaning they just dont quite blend and fit in the same structure as the rest of the notes(like an A flat sounds out of place compared to all those other notes.)

Major scale intervals moves in steps and half steps(half step is one fret, whole step is two). C(whole step) D(whole) E(half) F(whole) G(w) A(w) B(h). For any key, the set up will always be this way, and allows for a difference in notes of all the other scales. When you PLAY a major scale, you begin on the ROOT of the key, and play thru to the octave.

So what if you are playing in the scale of C, but you star on the G note? thats where MODES come in. A mode is kind of like a scale within a scale. The presentation of notes(whole or half step pattern) is different, but end up hitting the same notes as the parent scale. This is only allowed to happen because of the interval pattern.

To clarify, playing in C but starting on the G mode, is completely different than playing the G scale. G scale follow the same intervals as shown above(w)(w)(h)(w)(w)(w)(h), but when you are playing the G MODE in the C SCALE, you modify the intervals to accomplish the same notes, as such:

[G]-[A]-[B][C]-[D]-[E][F]-[G]

The structure here is(w)(w)(h)(w)(w)(h)(w).

So there is a MODE(of scale within a scale) for every not of the MAJOR(parent) scale.

A mode built off of the FIRST DEGREE is called the Ionian mode, but is essentially just the major scale. the rest are show below:

I Ionian
II Dorian
III Phrygian
IV Lydian
V Mixolydian
VI Aeolian
VII Locrain

If you havent grasped all of this(dont worry if you havent, I'm in a rush and just kinda wanted to bang this out really quick), then you should go online and find some info on your own and learn this much. It's really not hard to grasp once you 'get it' so dont be discouraged. But in order for the rest of this to make sense, you should have some idea of what I'm talking about.

Now, onto the lessons, which I have laid out on pictures for easy access.

Please feel free to ask for clarification on anything. This is good info, and would be a shame to not be utilized because of a misunderstanding.

Image


Image


(direct links are here:

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h46/o ... chords.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h46/o ... etmaps.jpg)

DhamaBum
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:27 am

Re: C-A-G-E-D Guitar method

Postby DhamaBum » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:16 pm

Goddamn image resizing. I'm trying to get these things hosted and figured out.

Image

DhamaBum
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:27 am

Re: C-A-G-E-D Guitar method

Postby DhamaBum » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:17 pm

Image

OneHeartAtATime
Posts: 90
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:13 am

Re: C-A-G-E-D Guitar method

Postby OneHeartAtATime » Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:16 pm

Wow, if I ever have someone who is new at guitar I'm definitely sending them to this page, this would be very helpful!

DhamaBum
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:27 am

Re: C-A-G-E-D Guitar method

Postby DhamaBum » Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:36 am

Well, I'd really love to do more of these! Are there any topics on particular people would like me to tackle? Otherwise I can just think of something fun to do, maybe get more indepth on Modes and scales... I dont really know. Feedback would be good. I'd like to help anyone I can.

User avatar
Scott
Legend
Posts: 540
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:33 am
Location: Maryland
Contact:

Re: C-A-G-E-D Guitar method

Postby Scott » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:32 pm

Yeah Modes wouldn't be a bad idea or scales. Especially if you touch onto how they all fit together in the neck.
Self-inflicted or not, I find myself on the farthest star, foreign to everything like I woke up with a German tongue.


Return to “Musician Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest